I just don't get it....

[dragonheart]

I have to delay my bike ride for a minute so that I can post this - because I just really don't get it.....

I just read a rather scathing post against T/Z shippers and I just don't get the animosity - fandom is supposed to be fun people, sure we get rather caught up in what is going on and sometimes we even throw things and loose sleep over it (ok, maybe that's just me) but one thing I don't do is call other people names and make scathing remarks about people I don't even know.  I know your post wasn't against me personally - but I take it personally because I fall into that radical, vocal, and unruly group you are talking about.

I get it - you are a Tony/EJ shipper - I get that - I don't begrudge anyone their ship - different boats for different folks.  You have just as much right to your views on T/E as I do on T/Z - you have just as much right to write stories and episode reviews - you have just as much right to hate Ziva as much as I hate EJ. You have just as much right to hope that the season ends in your ship's favor as I do. And please, post your views to your hearts content - that's what LJ is for and I don't even mind that you have a whole journal that is actually dedicated as anti-tiva - sometimes I even read what you have to say. 

But here is where we differ:  I am not calling you and like minded shippers a radical minority who will do or say anything to further my ship at the expense of the show.  I don't call you names such as "hate filled" and "spiteful" - I don't wish you would fall off the ends of the earth - I am not blaming you for the demise of the Tony character, I am not spewing hate for Sarah Jane Morris like you spew it for Cote de Pablo - these are real people with real lives  - they are NOT their characters.  

If you want to hate the T/Z ship - then hate it - but do you really have to hate the shippers and the actors themselves? 

Isn't that taking fun and turning it into something ugly?  

Why can't we all just agree to disagree and let each other enjoy the show - and keep the "hate" to made up characters - not real people.
 

Comments

[littlesammy.livejournal.com]

Most likely not even a Tony/EJ shipper, but more likely a Tony/Gibbs shipper. The same kind who roots for Kate being so superior. (In my interpretation that is because Kate was never a serious danger for the Gibbs/DiNozzo dynamic. But as soon as Ziva showed up - wham, all of Tony's attention focused on her.)

The names of the most angry antis are those of slash fans. Most of them have been around since the first seasons, and so yeah, they are pissed that their ship is no longer the predominant one. And so, yes, they latch onto EJ with all their might, because anything that gets Tony's attention away from the evil bitch that is Ziva is a good thing in reverse logic, right?

*sighs* Yeah, welcome to my frustration...

[rigil-kent.livejournal.com]

Ironically, everything they've bitched about with the Tony/Ziva thing doing to the show (turning it into a soap, distracting Tony at work, blah blah blah) is actually showing up with the Tony/EJ nonsense, which makes most of their support of this mess so blatantly hypocritical that is painful.

[littlesammy.livejournal.com]

I have a hunch that - when they finally play out T/Z - it will showcase just how very different his relationship with Ziva will be. How *right* it will be with her. (Why, yes, I have my rose-colored glasses firmly attached, why do you ask?)

[rigil-kent.livejournal.com]

Ah, but you still have faith in the showrunners. Me, not so much.

I still halfway expect that the people running the show will end up being swayed by the loud, vocal, vitriolic antis who have frankly turned me off of NCIS fandom.

But then, I'm a pessimist at heart.

[dragonheart]

As the finale nears, it's almost like they smell blood in the water and a frenzy has ensued -

I don't think I will be walking on the dark side again even though they do have good spoilers.:)

Best to pretend they don't even exist.

[nakeisha.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry you had to come across something like this. I haven't seen it myself.

But really, I too don't get it, I really don't get it. This fandom used to all play happily in the same sand-box no matter what ship or character(s) a person preferred.

I also don't understand or get and hate the double standards that exist.

And I hate the way people will use their dislike of a character to hate the actor/actress. Like you I don't like EJ at all, but hey, I have nothing against SJM; she hasn't done anything. She is just playing a part. Ditto CdeP. It's so sad and so upsetting when this kind of hatred happens.

I echo your sentiments: keep it for the characters and don't hate the actors or those people who happen to ship a pairing that isn't liked by some.

Such a shame.

[dragonheart]

I was a little shocked myself. I know I can be vocal in my opinions, but I hope that I am able to keep it within reason and limited to characters not people.

Jeez, that's what I get for visiting the other side, but I just never considered it enemy territory until now. I have a friend who is anti-tiva and anti-ziva so I pop over there now and again to see what is going on in her slice of fandom. I don't think I will be visiting again.

[rigil-kent.livejournal.com]

Wizard's First Rule: People are Stupid.

Rigil's Corollary to Wizard's First Rule: And They Suck, Too.

[libbipage.livejournal.com]

Because some people always need something to bitch about. I pay them no mind because it seems more sad to me than anything. I understand where you're coming from though, Kytivafan, it's hard to wrap your mind around some people. They're not worth your time, though :) go enjoy your bike ride!!

[dragonheart]

I did enjoy it. It was beautiful. And the best part? I didn't kill or injure myself in the process.

[proseac]

You've made some very eloquent points, and I agree wholeheartedly.

I'm neither pro- nor anti-T/Z, IN THEORY...I've written both in fanfic. I AM sort of leery of the showrunners ever actually putting ANY of our main team members together in ANY ship (the disaster that Moonlighting became is still fresh in my memory all these years later, and I don't want my NCIS spoiled). But I respect the point of view of those who think it would be great.

And this is why, even though I am still a member of one of the most vocal anti-TIVA communities, I almost NEVER post there anymore, because I just got tired of all the vitriol and venom that was being spewed at the pro-TIVA fans. I only stay for the spoilers! *g*

[rigil-kent.livejournal.com]

the disaster that Moonlighting became is still fresh in my memory all these years later

That's actually not a valid comparison if you look at the actual Moonlighting series, although its become a rallying cry. Following the two main characters getting romantically involved in Moonlighting at the end of the season, the show then underwent a major change as one half of that ship was actually barely in the show for the next season. They focused on secondary characters for the longest time rather than the Main Characters, so the ratings dropped dramatically, and by the time they went back to actually dealing with the Main Characters being in a sort of relationship, the damage was already done.

That said, I actually have zero faith in the current showrunners being capable of doing a relationship that doesn't end up offending all sides of the equation. They can't figure out what to do with Ziva or McGee anymore, and Tony is so wildly inconsistent that putting any of the main characters in a relationship that's actually front and center on the show would inevitably be a failure. Hell, they can't seem to make up their mind if Tony and Ziva actually like one another; it seems like a toss-up whether the two characters will be friendly or ripping each other's guts out from episode to episode.

And that's coming from someone who used to be a mondo huge Tiva fan. I simply don't think the showrunners could do it without pissing everybody off.

I think the thing that irks me the most is just the general hypocrisy, ya know? When the show started turning me off of Tiva (season 6, season 7), I tried looking at that referenced community but quickly realized that if you didn't worship Tony's feet, you're not welcome there, and I've turned into one of those people who honestly think that Ziva could do better since DiNozzo (IMHO) isn't worth the time. YMMV, of course.

[dragonheart]

I pop over now and again to see their spoilers too - but, I don't think I will be going back - it's now gotten to the point where even I can't look past the nastiness and I am generally all about "to each his own".

[alidiabin]

Wait I got a T/EJ shipper latch onto my comment about death to EJ.

I got no problems with anti T/Z or people like Prosaec who swing both ways (or whatever she calls it). But when they start hating Ziva because they never hate Tony do they, I get pissed off. And the CdP haters make me curse at the screen.

I agree with you, why can't we all agree to disagree without all these spiteful words. Besides LJ's a big enough place there are only a few places where we have to mix and mingle with the anti's.

[toomuchfandom.livejournal.com]

The NCIS fandom is one of the most pleaseant fandoms to dabble in; as everyone's welcoming and respectful of one's ships. Or at least it used to be.

I remember that when nakeisha started the gibbs/ducky community that she and I were amongst a few Gibbs/Ducky writers and we were frowned upon at first, but now, it's a respected ship (although still there are people who think it's icky!).

Personally, I can see Tony/Ziva more than Tony/EJ. I'm not a HUGE Tony fan, but I do respect everyone who does. I remember being very anti-ziva too (years ago) but all it needed was someone who showed me how awesome and kickass she is (guess who?) another friend of mine showed me through fic that Tony's not such an annoying character and he actually made him loveable for me.

LJ's a big place, I suggest you find the comms that suit you, and leave everything else to the side. I've been dancing on the edges of fandom and never really actively play in it, because the last thing I want is to get involved in fandom wars (been there, done that, drowned myself)

[dragonheart]

slash doesn't bother me one bit. I am pretty much to each his own - as long as we can stay respectful to each other.

I will be avoiding that particular community from now - even though they do have the best spoilers because it has just gotten to be too much.

I agree fandom wars are not the way to go, this is supposed to fun after all.

glad you checked out my journal - now you can see what a HUGE leap it was for me to click into your story, and again so glad that I did.

[toomuchfandom.livejournal.com]

tee hee, there's nothing wrong with experimenting!

*licks current chapter of Intergalactic Scuttlebutt