What's With the Haters?

[dragonheart]

I am fairly new to Live Journal and to fandom in general, so since I have discovered this new obsession, I have been trolling thru LJ looking for good fiction, interesting journaling and checking out the various communities.  I recently came upon a community called "No Tiva"  which is dedicated to the people who are against Tiva and let me tell you I got an education on hate.  I was actually shocked at the level of animosity in there.  From the sampling of postings that I read, I can classify the anti-tiva movement into 3 groups.

Group #1 - not really anti-Tiva, more of an anti-relationship movement, and since Tiva is the canon ship of the show, they have hopped on that bandwagon.  From what I can tell, they want to keep the show "pure" - no romance - just team dynamic and case fiction - they don't want to watch soap opera, but crime drama.   Ok, I can kind of see their point - I for one am a shipper, but I don't have any real problems with this group as a whole.

Group #2 - anti-Tiva.  They don't have a problem with relationships on the show, they just don't want T/Z together.  This group seems to be very pro EJ at this point - anybody to break up the Tiva dynamic.  Either they have been against T/Z from the beginning or they are converts due to the dilly dallying of the writers playing both sides of the coin for years now.  They are burnt out on the whole thing and ready to move on.  I can see their point as well, and as much as I disagree with them, I don't have any big problems with this group either,  which brings me to

Group#3 - These are the real haters of the movement.  They despise T/Z together and just about all of them hate Ziva in particular for various reasons.  Actually check that, I do believe that all of them hate Ziva to some degree.  I don't think I read one posting from anyone who said they were anti-Tiva because they hated Tony (they are probley out there, I just didn't see them in my sampling).  These people had some really nasty things to say about the character of Ziva.  And hey, I know all about disliking a character - I would be the first to raise my hand and say I don't like the character of EJ, and not just because she is causing friction in my ship, but for a laundry listing of other reasons (which is for another post), so ok, I can sorta understand this group even though I personally love Ziva and she is my girl crush - but  included in this group is a small (I hope) fraction that takes their hate of Ziva and extends it over to Cote de Pablo.  I cannot believe the things that people were posting about CdP, they are practically holding her personally responsible for the mistakes of the Ziva character and any perceived problems on the show. They think if CdP was fired or her contract would not be renewed, then the show would go back to being perfect. Do they not understand that CdP is an actress? She is not Ziva personified - she is only portraying the character as she is written by the writers and directed by the directors ( that's where their frustrations and anger should be directed).  This is one group that I can't even pretend to begin to understand. 

Comments

[alidiabin]

Ahh ... 'notiva' I wondered when you come across that.

I don't like group three. Esspecially with the CdP hate, seriously when are people gonna realize CdP has very little to do with Ziva. If you hate her character blame the writers. I love Ziva.

I agree somewhat with group two. I don't want T/Z right now but wouldn't mind it in the last season. I have been on the verge of joining that group but i can't deny it.. I like T/Z and most fanfic undoes the crap we get one screen.

I understand group one because the team/oc realtionships have gone a bit soapy. But McGee/Abby's realtionship was perfectly unsoapish. I'm sure if T/Z was like that or all secretive it'd be much better.

I think some of them are slashers though mostly those in groups 1&2. I'm not saying slash is wrong. It's just it doesn't work in the fandom.

I have soloution. Allude to T/Z doing it with closeness and refrencing 'movie nights' and the shippers can declare they're doing it and the anti's can say thier just friends.

[littlesammy.livejournal.com]

Group is primarily composed of people who have been around since season one and two. They're the Gibbs/DiNozzo slashers, mostly. They want Kate back because she was never a danger to their "dynamic".

[rigil-kent.livejournal.com]

Which is all sorts of weird, 'cause I was utterly convinced when season 1 first aired that they were going for a Gibbs/Kate thing.

[dragonheart]

ah yes.... the Gibbs/Tony slashers, another group I don't understand. They are totally living in fantasyland, as it just doesn't jive with this particular fandom.

[cinematus.livejournal.com]

You're not the only one that got that impression.

[littlesammy.livejournal.com]

Canon-wise, yes. But everything that is in NCIS slash fandom is also very dominant in the first season - the Gibbs-as-mean-alpha-dog type, the needy, emotionally starved Tony, the submissive Tony, the slightly kinky subtext, and yeah, the D/s vibe is definitely there.

So yes, the militant group consists mostly of the slashers who fell in love with the "guy show" back then and never got the memo that Ziva's arrival pretty much eradicated that subtext. (Or, well - maybe they got it and that's why they're pissed.)

[littlesammy.livejournal.com]

The thing is, now that I'm rewatching the early seasons... while Kate was around, that subtext was even there. They had a different way of shooting them, they deliberately place Gibbs and Tony very, very close, and they were almost touchy-feely at times. I swear, I don't want to see it, because I came to this show at a point where these two are definitely very straight-laced, heterosexual males. But looking at the first season - yeah, I do see where these folks are coming from.

The thing is, that dynamic is no longer there. Ziva's arrival dramatically altered the chemistry and shifted the dynamics, and suddenly we no longer have the needy Tony who clings to Gibbs in every shot.

Things changed. And the people who slash them are still stuck in the old dynamic.

[rigil-kent.livejournal.com]

I guess I can see your point re: 1st season. I didn't really see that 'cause I'm not really wired to see that sort of thing, but I guess if someone's looking for it, its easy enough to find.

Totally OT: I love that icon. Middleman was such an awesome show ... which reminds me, I need to see if I can get it on DVD ...

[littlesammy.livejournal.com]

It's out on DVD. Which made me very happy. ;)

Too bad that show only had such a few episodes. :(

[rigil-kent.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I just visited Amazon, saw it, and promptly purchased it.

Best part? My roommates didn't see it and don't know the pure Awesome that is now coming. :D

[dragonheart]

ah, I didn't start watching until the 3rd season, but I have gone back and watched S1 and S2 - but didn't really get into them - I thought the series was just ok back then, it didn't spark for me until the arrival of Ziva.

[lovinthelove.livejournal.com]